May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
This piece was really relatable to me. I tried to make it as a screenwriter and actor for several years before getting back my travel roots. When I was pursuing screenwriting and acting, I was sucked into the world of egos and scams. In my case, it was mostly producers and industry professionals trying to get me naked, which lead to a few chapters my parents weren’t too fond of reading in my book Living with the In-Laws. The superficiality of the film world and the amount of trash screenplays being turned into movies got to me, so I went to university, started traveling again, and noticed it wasn’t just the film world that was all about money and “making it,” but American (in my case Canadian) culture.
Now I’m in Spain, and nobody asks me about my job or salary, which feels nice, being broke AF and all. When I think about my career goals, I feel like a failure, but here, people are more interested in the person I am, what I’m learning, my experiences, and of course, when I’ve available for a beer and tapas.
That being said, I still love film and screenwriting. I’m slowing working on a new screenplay that I could produce in Spain. Have you had any experience screenwriting outside of the Hollywood scene? I wonder if screenwriters not trying to make it Hollywood are less miserable.
Thank you! Oh, man, sorry for those horrible experiences.
Yeah, it is very very verry nice to be viewed as a human being, not a "stepping stone" or an "opportunity," which is how I feel out and about in the world.
I do have experience in indie film, and I've produced a few of my own things. But, of course, without resources, that is really, really hard, and the product can be frustratingly disappointing, just because you don't have have resources. But I'm open to possibilities! And I absolutely support thing kind of thing. Creators should absolutely CREATE. That is much much better than complaining or lamenting, IMHO.
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
The one experience I had selling something to Hollywood made me want to peel my skin off, so this really made me feel better about moving to the mountains.
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Couldn't agree more about thoughts on "making it" and creative work. It's hard to always give the advice "human first, writer second" because I know just how people feel starting out, but the last thing I want to do is to keep hustling to make not-quite-enough at something I love doing (this is why I keep copy editing).
There is a time and place for the hustle. But I'm glad I now have the resources to move beyond that. If it happens, it happens, and if it doesn't, I can still be very happy.
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Oh, I love this so much. I do a lot of "what if" thinking, and I know I shouldn't. Middle age has definitely brought with it a lot of reflection, but I also know that I am happy with our life right now. We've had to go through some real shit to get where we are, but I am the woman, writer, and professional that I am because of all of those experiences and I like who I am 😊
Yup yup yup! There's a reason why older people are happier, I think. We realize what's important, and priorities shift. But the journey has been interesting, and for the most part, I wouldn't have it any other way....
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Our lives do take us on quite a ride, and not always along the roads we'd mapped out. Of all forms of writing, it does seem that screenwriting is the most brutal. You're always at the mercy of the non-creative money people who can't see beyond the bottom lines. Art means nothing to most of them unless art can sell. The old days of low-budget quiet slice-of-life films seem to be gone, and that's a shame.
But being a nomad, traveling the world and sharing those experiences with thousands of readers who can't wait for the next installment ain't peanuts!
I love what you and Michael do here. I would have loved your films, too--I just know it.
Hahah, thank you, Ramona. So true about life, and that's part of what makes it so interesting, for sure. I never imagined Michael would end up where we are, in what seems to me to be the best of all possible worlds. Ironically, the world feels more magical and endless to me now than it ever did even when I was younger. That has to be a good thing.
So sweet of you to say that about my would-be films...
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
I never made a serious run at trying to be a professional writer. However, I relate to your story a great deal because it has its analogs in a lot of different careers. From teachers to certain areas of law practice to restauranteurs, etc, etc, the difficulty of getting paid what one is worth for the very hard and dedicated work one puts in exists in so many unexpected (and expected) fields. I spent 12 years practicing criminal defense in the Bay Area and just barely eked out a living. I left for a job elsewhere and it's been much, much better. I too often wonder what if I had stuck it out. Maybe I'd be successful and still living in San Francisco, a city that is absurdly easy to fall in love with. But I also love where I live now and hope to join you very shortly on the nomadic trail.
Very interesting! Yes, I'm sure that's the case that many many people have similar struggles and frustrations. I'm always reluctant to dress up the creative experience as some mystical magical one, when, in fact, it's mostly just what most human beings go through in life -- lots of work, little recognition and success.
I think, in the end, all the matters is are we happy and satisfied NOW, especially as we get older and we realize just how finite our lives really are. It sounds like we both are!
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Yeah! I love this. I love how Life moves us in the right direction. Every time. You made good choices Brent, it just took you a while to realize it. I get it. At 72 I recently wrote a post about redefining success. Finally got it that it wasn't about the (symbolic) oscar. It was about a life well-lived, living from heart and intuition. I hope I get to meet you guys one day. That would be awesome!
Couldn't agree more, it's about how we FEEL, how satisfied and happy we are, and how much we are loved. Everyone says that, but in the end, it's really the only -- the ONLY -- thing that matters. It took me too long to realize this, but I finally did.
Until we share that bottle of wine! (Or whatever your choice of drink is...)
May 4, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
This piece made me think. I also wished (& sulked & cried) on & off for 20+ years about living in Africa for most of my 20’s & all of my 30’s. I focused on what I missed. I am finally coming around to seeing all that I gained.
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Wow, I knew it was a tough life, but it’s now worse than I ever dreamed. I enjoy reading you hear, but I confess I can’t conceive of what it takes for a screenplay.
Nomading sounds ever so much better! And you can still write, and be back in LA in half a day if something breaks, right? Think how deep in the hole you guys might be had you stayed in EXPENSIVE and increasingly depressing LA. Or Seattle, similarly descending into madness.
I hear so many stories of how long “overnight success” really takes! One of my favorite authors had his first book in 2009 optioned right away, but Netflix just made it last year. They changed the h€ll out of it, but it did well. The Gray Man, by Mark Greaney. (Yes, my guilty pleasure is action books and movies.) Mark did a great interview with Joe Rogan.
I’ll bet you could get on Rogan’s podcast. You are both fascinating people with cool experiences.
In fact, you two could do your own podcast about your lives and travels. You could do the video on your phone, walking around and in hotel rooms, no problem, post them to Rumble, ITunes, iHeart and (ugh)You Tube and even Twitter. Get advertisers. Or make your videos subscriber only on Locals or Patreon. I know there are a lot of ways to monetize stuff.
You can do audio group chats now on Twitter, let followers know, you pick yourselves and possibly a guest as moderators, everyone else listens and raises a hand if they wish to speak. They can be of wide interest like the travel, or special interest like LGBTQ+ or whatever you like.
And still work on books and screenplays. But evolve and adapt to new media avenues. Feature films are not the only money around.
Develop some cool merch, t-shirts or whatever, sell through outlets that make and distribute, you never handle a thing. There are several, mind a blank at the moment. I need to save these ideas, though!
Thank you very much, that is very kind of you to say! We've considering doing a podcast, but honestly, we enjoy writing here much more -- and the monetization has been fine so far. It's actually given me the freedom to do the feature stuff on the side, which has been great.
Appreciate the suggestions though! I love the way you think.
May 3, 2023Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Dear Brent:
Thanks for a great article, even though you took issue with my favorite city of all time, L.A. In truth, when I first moved to L.A. to go to college, I hated it for about 6 months. But I was determined not to run home like a couple of my friends did after short stints in San Francisco and San Jose. I never wanted to go back to the sundown town of Escondido where I had grown up. After about 6 months, I started enjoying the City of Angels. Unlike you, however, the only connection to the "industry" I really had was going to a lot of movies at the theatres. I did have my brush with fame, however, when I played an extra in the unforgettable movie, "FM". I was in the concert scene at the Cocoanut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel. After that experience, I knew moviemaking was not in the cards for me. The longer I stayed in L.A., the more I began to appreciate the "other" L.A. I graduated from college as a Geography major and started my career as an 8th. Grade teacher in a Catholic elementary school. I've long since left the Catholic school system, but I'm still a teacher today. I discovered some really beautiful spots in the City of Angels which I visited frequently. I met some really nice, genuine people far removed from the entertainment business. I even learned how to navigate L.A. without a car! That was a sure sign of the Apocalypse. Although I haven't lived in L.A. for over 40 years now, I live in a suburban enclave of a city which is quite a lot like L.A., San Jose. I've come to love San Jose just as much as I ever loved L.A. But L.A. will always hold a special place in my heart. It's the place where I finally grew up.
Truthfully, I think there are many great people even in the entertainment industry -- especially writers, of course. Ha!
I do think LA is an amazing city with soooooo much going on, so much energy and excitement -- and it may have the most diverse cuisine in the world. Unfortunately...THAT TRAFFIC. It seems like we were ALWAYS in the car. Or we were too exhausted by the traffic to go to some amazing event. The cost of living is also (currently) out of control.
I've been thinking lately how I made the right choice of day job--a (relatively) stable field where I was employable and had salary and benefits far beyond what I could've made as a writer. The money I've made in my entire writing career is less than what I made in 6 months at the day job. But more than the money, I realize that psychologically, writing would have been a poor choice for me as a main career. The uncertainty, the insecurity, the constant rejection, are all detrimental to my mental health. Creating as my second job meant that I had the freedom to do projects I wanted, and even though I worked very hard, I could "let go" of the results.
The film industry seems like uncertainty on steroids. I so admire people who could make it in that field--as well as those who know it's not for them.
I have struggled with this question my whole life. Should I have taken a more conventional job? In the end, I am fine, because I hustled a lot, and pivoted, and had a few breaks. But I often think: Man, it would have been nice to have had a steady, consistent income. Plus, a little less rejection and frustration! I'm not sure there is a wrong answer -- we all have to listen to our hearts. But BOTH answers can definitely be the "right" one, that's for sure.
If so, please consider clicking the above link and liking the Notes post—leave a comment or even share within your own community. Poetry lives on in the minds of hearts of writers, it breathes on the page.
Your voice can be heard among the starry illuminations, howling at the moon.
This was a great piece of writing. Thank you! I think we can all relate to feelings of regret and what if’s about the past, and yet, as you point out if we had done things differently we might not have met the people we loved, or found something even better. I too could not stand L.A. and my husband got a job with the forest service there and left within a week even though they told him it would ruin his career because he just couldn’t stand it. Some places you know are right and some places you know immediately aren’t! I’m glad you followed your heart.
Not only should you have no regrets, but you and Michael may occupy one of the few "content" niches that won't be conquered by AI in the next several years. By the time GPT-7's on vacation in Thailand, the perils of screenwriting will be the least of our problems. :-)
LOL we frequently say variations on this. WHEW! (Although if AI is convincing enough, they probably *could* compete. Who's to know if we're real or not? LOL)
All too true. I've been reading up on AI and I'm trying to take a measured response to it all, but like we discussed during your April Fool's Day post, it seems like extreme pessimism is warranted.
This piece was really relatable to me. I tried to make it as a screenwriter and actor for several years before getting back my travel roots. When I was pursuing screenwriting and acting, I was sucked into the world of egos and scams. In my case, it was mostly producers and industry professionals trying to get me naked, which lead to a few chapters my parents weren’t too fond of reading in my book Living with the In-Laws. The superficiality of the film world and the amount of trash screenplays being turned into movies got to me, so I went to university, started traveling again, and noticed it wasn’t just the film world that was all about money and “making it,” but American (in my case Canadian) culture.
Now I’m in Spain, and nobody asks me about my job or salary, which feels nice, being broke AF and all. When I think about my career goals, I feel like a failure, but here, people are more interested in the person I am, what I’m learning, my experiences, and of course, when I’ve available for a beer and tapas.
That being said, I still love film and screenwriting. I’m slowing working on a new screenplay that I could produce in Spain. Have you had any experience screenwriting outside of the Hollywood scene? I wonder if screenwriters not trying to make it Hollywood are less miserable.
Thank you! Oh, man, sorry for those horrible experiences.
Yeah, it is very very verry nice to be viewed as a human being, not a "stepping stone" or an "opportunity," which is how I feel out and about in the world.
I do have experience in indie film, and I've produced a few of my own things. But, of course, without resources, that is really, really hard, and the product can be frustratingly disappointing, just because you don't have have resources. But I'm open to possibilities! And I absolutely support thing kind of thing. Creators should absolutely CREATE. That is much much better than complaining or lamenting, IMHO.
Thanks for the comment!
The one experience I had selling something to Hollywood made me want to peel my skin off, so this really made me feel better about moving to the mountains.
Haha, yes, like in the Amityville Horror, the message is... GEEETTTT OOOUUUUTTTT! LOL
Couldn't agree more about thoughts on "making it" and creative work. It's hard to always give the advice "human first, writer second" because I know just how people feel starting out, but the last thing I want to do is to keep hustling to make not-quite-enough at something I love doing (this is why I keep copy editing).
There is a time and place for the hustle. But I'm glad I now have the resources to move beyond that. If it happens, it happens, and if it doesn't, I can still be very happy.
Oh, I love this so much. I do a lot of "what if" thinking, and I know I shouldn't. Middle age has definitely brought with it a lot of reflection, but I also know that I am happy with our life right now. We've had to go through some real shit to get where we are, but I am the woman, writer, and professional that I am because of all of those experiences and I like who I am 😊
Yup yup yup! There's a reason why older people are happier, I think. We realize what's important, and priorities shift. But the journey has been interesting, and for the most part, I wouldn't have it any other way....
Our lives do take us on quite a ride, and not always along the roads we'd mapped out. Of all forms of writing, it does seem that screenwriting is the most brutal. You're always at the mercy of the non-creative money people who can't see beyond the bottom lines. Art means nothing to most of them unless art can sell. The old days of low-budget quiet slice-of-life films seem to be gone, and that's a shame.
But being a nomad, traveling the world and sharing those experiences with thousands of readers who can't wait for the next installment ain't peanuts!
I love what you and Michael do here. I would have loved your films, too--I just know it.
It ain't peanuts indeed!
Hahah, thank you, Ramona. So true about life, and that's part of what makes it so interesting, for sure. I never imagined Michael would end up where we are, in what seems to me to be the best of all possible worlds. Ironically, the world feels more magical and endless to me now than it ever did even when I was younger. That has to be a good thing.
So sweet of you to say that about my would-be films...
I never made a serious run at trying to be a professional writer. However, I relate to your story a great deal because it has its analogs in a lot of different careers. From teachers to certain areas of law practice to restauranteurs, etc, etc, the difficulty of getting paid what one is worth for the very hard and dedicated work one puts in exists in so many unexpected (and expected) fields. I spent 12 years practicing criminal defense in the Bay Area and just barely eked out a living. I left for a job elsewhere and it's been much, much better. I too often wonder what if I had stuck it out. Maybe I'd be successful and still living in San Francisco, a city that is absurdly easy to fall in love with. But I also love where I live now and hope to join you very shortly on the nomadic trail.
Very interesting! Yes, I'm sure that's the case that many many people have similar struggles and frustrations. I'm always reluctant to dress up the creative experience as some mystical magical one, when, in fact, it's mostly just what most human beings go through in life -- lots of work, little recognition and success.
I think, in the end, all the matters is are we happy and satisfied NOW, especially as we get older and we realize just how finite our lives really are. It sounds like we both are!
Yeah! I love this. I love how Life moves us in the right direction. Every time. You made good choices Brent, it just took you a while to realize it. I get it. At 72 I recently wrote a post about redefining success. Finally got it that it wasn't about the (symbolic) oscar. It was about a life well-lived, living from heart and intuition. I hope I get to meet you guys one day. That would be awesome!
Alison
Likewise!
Couldn't agree more, it's about how we FEEL, how satisfied and happy we are, and how much we are loved. Everyone says that, but in the end, it's really the only -- the ONLY -- thing that matters. It took me too long to realize this, but I finally did.
Until we share that bottle of wine! (Or whatever your choice of drink is...)
I just have to say Michael, you look faaaaabulous!
Thank you, Mike. That's a lovely comment to wake up to!
He does though! Top photo is "after". 😂😂😂
Agreed! You do look great! Inspiring, too. I’m going to start saving - I hate the grooves and my late mom’s jowls.
Thanks, Virginia!
Awww, that warmed my heart. And the last sentence was gold.
Why thank you! Nice of you to say.
This piece made me think. I also wished (& sulked & cried) on & off for 20+ years about living in Africa for most of my 20’s & all of my 30’s. I focused on what I missed. I am finally coming around to seeing all that I gained.
Exactly! Right on. I have a hard time imagining you doing anything more interesting than living in Africa that time... Just sayin'! :-)
But somehow wearing cute outfits & going to a dumb job in DC sounded more appealing 🤦♀️
Oh! Well, you didn't mention cute outfits. No, you clearly DID screw up your life. Sorry! ;-)
I think that kind of wisdom does usually come with age. I certainly didn't have it in my twenties...
Wow, I knew it was a tough life, but it’s now worse than I ever dreamed. I enjoy reading you hear, but I confess I can’t conceive of what it takes for a screenplay.
Nomading sounds ever so much better! And you can still write, and be back in LA in half a day if something breaks, right? Think how deep in the hole you guys might be had you stayed in EXPENSIVE and increasingly depressing LA. Or Seattle, similarly descending into madness.
I hear so many stories of how long “overnight success” really takes! One of my favorite authors had his first book in 2009 optioned right away, but Netflix just made it last year. They changed the h€ll out of it, but it did well. The Gray Man, by Mark Greaney. (Yes, my guilty pleasure is action books and movies.) Mark did a great interview with Joe Rogan.
I’ll bet you could get on Rogan’s podcast. You are both fascinating people with cool experiences.
In fact, you two could do your own podcast about your lives and travels. You could do the video on your phone, walking around and in hotel rooms, no problem, post them to Rumble, ITunes, iHeart and (ugh)You Tube and even Twitter. Get advertisers. Or make your videos subscriber only on Locals or Patreon. I know there are a lot of ways to monetize stuff.
You can do audio group chats now on Twitter, let followers know, you pick yourselves and possibly a guest as moderators, everyone else listens and raises a hand if they wish to speak. They can be of wide interest like the travel, or special interest like LGBTQ+ or whatever you like.
And still work on books and screenplays. But evolve and adapt to new media avenues. Feature films are not the only money around.
Develop some cool merch, t-shirts or whatever, sell through outlets that make and distribute, you never handle a thing. There are several, mind a blank at the moment. I need to save these ideas, though!
Thank you very much, that is very kind of you to say! We've considering doing a podcast, but honestly, we enjoy writing here much more -- and the monetization has been fine so far. It's actually given me the freedom to do the feature stuff on the side, which has been great.
Appreciate the suggestions though! I love the way you think.
Well, thank you back! That’s the nicest thing anyone’s said to me in a long time.
Dear Brent:
Thanks for a great article, even though you took issue with my favorite city of all time, L.A. In truth, when I first moved to L.A. to go to college, I hated it for about 6 months. But I was determined not to run home like a couple of my friends did after short stints in San Francisco and San Jose. I never wanted to go back to the sundown town of Escondido where I had grown up. After about 6 months, I started enjoying the City of Angels. Unlike you, however, the only connection to the "industry" I really had was going to a lot of movies at the theatres. I did have my brush with fame, however, when I played an extra in the unforgettable movie, "FM". I was in the concert scene at the Cocoanut Grove at the Ambassador Hotel. After that experience, I knew moviemaking was not in the cards for me. The longer I stayed in L.A., the more I began to appreciate the "other" L.A. I graduated from college as a Geography major and started my career as an 8th. Grade teacher in a Catholic elementary school. I've long since left the Catholic school system, but I'm still a teacher today. I discovered some really beautiful spots in the City of Angels which I visited frequently. I met some really nice, genuine people far removed from the entertainment business. I even learned how to navigate L.A. without a car! That was a sure sign of the Apocalypse. Although I haven't lived in L.A. for over 40 years now, I live in a suburban enclave of a city which is quite a lot like L.A., San Jose. I've come to love San Jose just as much as I ever loved L.A. But L.A. will always hold a special place in my heart. It's the place where I finally grew up.
Truthfully, I think there are many great people even in the entertainment industry -- especially writers, of course. Ha!
I do think LA is an amazing city with soooooo much going on, so much energy and excitement -- and it may have the most diverse cuisine in the world. Unfortunately...THAT TRAFFIC. It seems like we were ALWAYS in the car. Or we were too exhausted by the traffic to go to some amazing event. The cost of living is also (currently) out of control.
Thanks for the nice memories though. So sweet!
I've been thinking lately how I made the right choice of day job--a (relatively) stable field where I was employable and had salary and benefits far beyond what I could've made as a writer. The money I've made in my entire writing career is less than what I made in 6 months at the day job. But more than the money, I realize that psychologically, writing would have been a poor choice for me as a main career. The uncertainty, the insecurity, the constant rejection, are all detrimental to my mental health. Creating as my second job meant that I had the freedom to do projects I wanted, and even though I worked very hard, I could "let go" of the results.
The film industry seems like uncertainty on steroids. I so admire people who could make it in that field--as well as those who know it's not for them.
I have struggled with this question my whole life. Should I have taken a more conventional job? In the end, I am fine, because I hustled a lot, and pivoted, and had a few breaks. But I often think: Man, it would have been nice to have had a steady, consistent income. Plus, a little less rejection and frustration! I'm not sure there is a wrong answer -- we all have to listen to our hearts. But BOTH answers can definitely be the "right" one, that's for sure.
Fine writer and reader of Substack—we are starting a movement to get a poetry section added to the platform. Can I ask, are you with us?
https://substack.com/profile/10309929-david/note/c-15579327
If so, please consider clicking the above link and liking the Notes post—leave a comment or even share within your own community. Poetry lives on in the minds of hearts of writers, it breathes on the page.
Your voice can be heard among the starry illuminations, howling at the moon.
Thank you for your time and support.
Love and appreciation,
David
This was a great piece of writing. Thank you! I think we can all relate to feelings of regret and what if’s about the past, and yet, as you point out if we had done things differently we might not have met the people we loved, or found something even better. I too could not stand L.A. and my husband got a job with the forest service there and left within a week even though they told him it would ruin his career because he just couldn’t stand it. Some places you know are right and some places you know immediately aren’t! I’m glad you followed your heart.
Why thank you! Yup, right call. And yeah, I feel you on L.A. Weirdly, many of my friends LOVE it. I just don't get it.
Not only should you have no regrets, but you and Michael may occupy one of the few "content" niches that won't be conquered by AI in the next several years. By the time GPT-7's on vacation in Thailand, the perils of screenwriting will be the least of our problems. :-)
LOL we frequently say variations on this. WHEW! (Although if AI is convincing enough, they probably *could* compete. Who's to know if we're real or not? LOL)
All too true. I've been reading up on AI and I'm trying to take a measured response to it all, but like we discussed during your April Fool's Day post, it seems like extreme pessimism is warranted.
Sadly yes. 😂😢☹️