I’m not a fan of Starbucks, mostly because I don’t like their coffee. Our running club used to gather there after the Tuesday morning runs. Over time, the space became less welcoming—hard surfaces thst amplified noise, uncomfortable seating, awkwardly arranged. There’s a local coffee shop within walking distance of my house. It’s truly a third space: customers have gotten to know one another over time, the baristas are wonderful, they’ve improved the outside with plantings and a patio. And they have the best coffee in the county!
Oddly, I've never been to a Starbucks in the US, but I've been to the ones in Montreal, Geneva, Manchester, Prague, Helsinki, and other places in Europe (I've been collecting the You Are Here mug collection 🙈 ). I had no idea they *weren't* busy, vibrant places packed with people!
Nice one, Michael. I've often happily sought out Starbucks when traveling for similar reasons. Would you believe Perth, WA only got its first Starbucks very recently! 😅
ohh this is a fun take! It probably varies by location, but I think the hollowed out, soulless Starbucks experience in the US is definitely a symptom of broader societal issues and totally reflective of what the country has become.
Can't read that article, darn it. But, oh yeah, I remember his much Aussies disliked Starbucks! And it's true, there are loads of great coffee places all over!
This is great — thank you for the reminder. I’ll start noticing “third places” more closely as we travel. Sometimes ours is a pub in Ireland, sometimes a café in France, sometimes just the Airbnb balcony where we linger long enough to meet the neighbors.
I love how you tie it back to America too — maybe there’s still potential for us to return to community. Because the real trick isn’t the venue, it’s whether it slows you down long enough to belong.
An interesting analysis! For me the ideal coffee house would be place in which I can be myself (work/write) and, when the time is right, meet others.
Once in the U.S., I waited in a long line of customers who all ordered very complex, personalized drinks, and when it was my turn, I said: "Just a tall coffee, please." And the barista said: "I love you!"
(I can write an essay about what "I love you" means in different cultures—in the Netherlands no barista would ever say this to a stranger unless it was a genuine declaration of love.)
Yeah, those complicated coffee drinks are really something. I will say that in Taiwan they have all kinds of complicated non-coffee drinks that the Taiwanese seemed to love.
In his seminal book - Bowling Alone - Robert Putnam identified 8 'processes' that build communities, and figured that the US gradually eroded these over a period of time. I believe the other parts of the world are increasingly going in the direction of the US, but for a few saving graces: smaller countries where people are forced to crowd together, lesser number of cars, more people using public transport, civic spaces like gardens, newer gathering 'third spaces' hosting events, a rich culture of public performances, among others. So the good news is while we are getting more isolated in Asia, compared to previous generations, we are also finding newer ways to ensure we dont go the US way. The one thing that could really screw it up for us will be increasing inequality of incomes and the subsequent ghettoisation of the rich in walled compounds.
PS: Speaking as an Indian with a rich coffee heritage, let me clarify that Starbucks doesnt know anything about coffee. But what do I know, we have just been doing it for a few centuries. LOL
I agree and hope those things will keep the rest of the world from following America's footsteps -- and that America will change.
As for Starbucks and coffee, if traveling the world has taught me anything, there's more than one way to do things. And I guess I'm a dupe for liking my Starbucks?😎
"Starbucks is also widely seen as being aspirational. The people who go there see themselves as successful, upwardly mobile, and sophisticated."
Wasn't that the point of Psy's global breakout hit "Gangnam Style"? I barely know what the Korean language looks like (I think it's like Chinese or Japanese, but with ovals), but somebody wrote a piece on how the song's a satire about young South Koreans posing as wealthier than they are ("Gangnam" being the name of Seoul's version of Nob Hill or the Upper East Side). The first two lines translated into English go something like, "I quickly drink my coffee, so people think I'm wealthy"—because coffee is expensive in South Korea, too, which is why most people there tend to savor it.
I don't know if Psy specifically meant Starbucks when he referenced that, but it's likely either them or a similar chain popular in South Korea.
I recognize the "affordable luxury" value of Starbucks, despite their current CEO being an anti-union *putz* who seems determined to destroy the value of the brand by squeezing every bit of short-term profit out of it, whether it's healthy to the long-term financial health of Starbucks or not! When money's tight for me, which is...often these days while my divorce that ever ends drags on (and on, and ON), I find that the last "treat" I get rid of are my two daily Starbucks Grande Nitro Cold Brews—because when I have to do that, I know I'm flat busted. 😭
I confess I never really listened to the lyrics of that song, but that info is really interesting. It does sound like the latest actions of the new CEO get that Starbucks had been headed in the wrong direction and might be changing for the better.
In addition to all your points, I find that in Türkiye there is serious consistency trained into the baristas. In the US this is beginning to lapse. I drink other brands and local in the US because my order may or may not be correct. Overseas I never have that problem.
Interesting! I guess I don't spend enough time in the US to have noticed that. But the overall experience overseas is superior, so it tracks that the baristas are better as well.
I remember, after living Starbucks-free in my first years in Norway, being SO excited finding one on a visit to Berlin. This is when I think I bought my first ever Starbucks location mug. I acquired a collection over the next say 10 years until, wow, they finally showed up in Oslo. These days, I don’t typically patronize them here much now (they don’t seem as cozy as those you pine for in our homeland) and I’m saddened to read the devolving of cozy coffee culture back home.
My better half loves patronizing Kaffebrenneriet for the coffee but it doesn’t have that comfortable lounging space. On the other hand, the Swedish chain Espresso House, which has proliferated here in Oslo, is the new “bring your laptop and lounge” cafe, although their food items, imo, are sketchy. But, it’s true, outside the Espresso Houses, most cafes here are tiny and not really set up as hangout zones.
I'm reminded here of McDonald's and Pizza Hut in Moscow in the Soviet Union, when I lived there in 1991. I can scoff all I want at chains and the need to patronize local businesses (and as someone else said below, I really can't stand Starbucks actual coffee though I like spending time there in unfamiliar places; it's been a refuge for me many times when there aren't alternatives), but these places mean something in non-American cultures. When McDonald's in Moscow eventually shut down after Putin invaded Ukraine it was the bookending of something huge. Thanks for this one!
Yeah, when the US franchises ended Russia that definitely heralded an end. Aren't they now called things like Starbacks and still using the same logo? I can't say I use them as refuges but even for someone like me who really enjoys variety and feeling like a fish out of water, sometimes Starbucks' familiarity is very welcome.
I’m not a fan of Starbucks, mostly because I don’t like their coffee. Our running club used to gather there after the Tuesday morning runs. Over time, the space became less welcoming—hard surfaces thst amplified noise, uncomfortable seating, awkwardly arranged. There’s a local coffee shop within walking distance of my house. It’s truly a third space: customers have gotten to know one another over time, the baristas are wonderful, they’ve improved the outside with plantings and a patio. And they have the best coffee in the county!
Yeah, if you don't like the coffee, then there isn't much else. I actually do like the coffee! 😎😎😎
Oddly, I've never been to a Starbucks in the US, but I've been to the ones in Montreal, Geneva, Manchester, Prague, Helsinki, and other places in Europe (I've been collecting the You Are Here mug collection 🙈 ). I had no idea they *weren't* busy, vibrant places packed with people!
Oh yeah, the Starbucks mugs. I forgot about those!
Nice one, Michael. I've often happily sought out Starbucks when traveling for similar reasons. Would you believe Perth, WA only got its first Starbucks very recently! 😅
Given how much Aussies hate Starbucks, I would believe it! 🤣🤣🤣
ohh this is a fun take! It probably varies by location, but I think the hollowed out, soulless Starbucks experience in the US is definitely a symptom of broader societal issues and totally reflective of what the country has become.
It's really sad, isn't it? I mean US Starbucks were never Italian cafes, but they used to be better...
Starbucks struggles in Australia because we are already drowning in quality coffee and places to drink it: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/broken-records-long-queues-after-25-years-has-starbucks-finally-figured-australia-out-20250207-p5lafo.html
Can't read that article, darn it. But, oh yeah, I remember his much Aussies disliked Starbucks! And it's true, there are loads of great coffee places all over!
This is great — thank you for the reminder. I’ll start noticing “third places” more closely as we travel. Sometimes ours is a pub in Ireland, sometimes a café in France, sometimes just the Airbnb balcony where we linger long enough to meet the neighbors.
I love how you tie it back to America too — maybe there’s still potential for us to return to community. Because the real trick isn’t the venue, it’s whether it slows you down long enough to belong.
Those are all great third places!
An interesting analysis! For me the ideal coffee house would be place in which I can be myself (work/write) and, when the time is right, meet others.
Once in the U.S., I waited in a long line of customers who all ordered very complex, personalized drinks, and when it was my turn, I said: "Just a tall coffee, please." And the barista said: "I love you!"
(I can write an essay about what "I love you" means in different cultures—in the Netherlands no barista would ever say this to a stranger unless it was a genuine declaration of love.)
Yeah, those complicated coffee drinks are really something. I will say that in Taiwan they have all kinds of complicated non-coffee drinks that the Taiwanese seemed to love.
And I love you for this comment, Claire! 🤣🤣🤣
I go to Starbucks a couple of times a week here in an American college town. Great place to read and study. People are friendly, the coffee great.
I like to mix things up between Starbucks and local places.
In his seminal book - Bowling Alone - Robert Putnam identified 8 'processes' that build communities, and figured that the US gradually eroded these over a period of time. I believe the other parts of the world are increasingly going in the direction of the US, but for a few saving graces: smaller countries where people are forced to crowd together, lesser number of cars, more people using public transport, civic spaces like gardens, newer gathering 'third spaces' hosting events, a rich culture of public performances, among others. So the good news is while we are getting more isolated in Asia, compared to previous generations, we are also finding newer ways to ensure we dont go the US way. The one thing that could really screw it up for us will be increasing inequality of incomes and the subsequent ghettoisation of the rich in walled compounds.
PS: Speaking as an Indian with a rich coffee heritage, let me clarify that Starbucks doesnt know anything about coffee. But what do I know, we have just been doing it for a few centuries. LOL
I agree and hope those things will keep the rest of the world from following America's footsteps -- and that America will change.
As for Starbucks and coffee, if traveling the world has taught me anything, there's more than one way to do things. And I guess I'm a dupe for liking my Starbucks?😎
What an interesting post! I really enjoyed all your thoughtful perspective
Thank you, Carolyn!
This is the kind of thing I find fascinating, and I love it when you write insightful pieces like these!
Thank you very much, Reda!
"Starbucks is also widely seen as being aspirational. The people who go there see themselves as successful, upwardly mobile, and sophisticated."
Wasn't that the point of Psy's global breakout hit "Gangnam Style"? I barely know what the Korean language looks like (I think it's like Chinese or Japanese, but with ovals), but somebody wrote a piece on how the song's a satire about young South Koreans posing as wealthier than they are ("Gangnam" being the name of Seoul's version of Nob Hill or the Upper East Side). The first two lines translated into English go something like, "I quickly drink my coffee, so people think I'm wealthy"—because coffee is expensive in South Korea, too, which is why most people there tend to savor it.
I don't know if Psy specifically meant Starbucks when he referenced that, but it's likely either them or a similar chain popular in South Korea.
I recognize the "affordable luxury" value of Starbucks, despite their current CEO being an anti-union *putz* who seems determined to destroy the value of the brand by squeezing every bit of short-term profit out of it, whether it's healthy to the long-term financial health of Starbucks or not! When money's tight for me, which is...often these days while my divorce that ever ends drags on (and on, and ON), I find that the last "treat" I get rid of are my two daily Starbucks Grande Nitro Cold Brews—because when I have to do that, I know I'm flat busted. 😭
I confess I never really listened to the lyrics of that song, but that info is really interesting. It does sound like the latest actions of the new CEO get that Starbucks had been headed in the wrong direction and might be changing for the better.
"the latest actions of the new CEO get that Starbucks had been headed in the wrong direction and might be changing for the better."
Huh! I was thinking of Howard Schultz during his second tenure, though it sounds like his replacement, Laxman Narasimhan, was even worse.
I confess being outside of the US for most of the past right years, I haven't really been aware of who was CEO until I wrote this piece.
I live here and I got the CEO wrong, too! 🙀
So you're doing fine, b/c I didn't know about Brian Niccol until you mentioned him.
In addition to all your points, I find that in Türkiye there is serious consistency trained into the baristas. In the US this is beginning to lapse. I drink other brands and local in the US because my order may or may not be correct. Overseas I never have that problem.
Interesting! I guess I don't spend enough time in the US to have noticed that. But the overall experience overseas is superior, so it tracks that the baristas are better as well.
Our Go-To in Europe is Costa Coffee. Just the best.
I have been to Costa many times.
I remember, after living Starbucks-free in my first years in Norway, being SO excited finding one on a visit to Berlin. This is when I think I bought my first ever Starbucks location mug. I acquired a collection over the next say 10 years until, wow, they finally showed up in Oslo. These days, I don’t typically patronize them here much now (they don’t seem as cozy as those you pine for in our homeland) and I’m saddened to read the devolving of cozy coffee culture back home.
I'm not sure why but during our month in Oslo, I never really found a local place or a Starbucks I spent much time at.
My better half loves patronizing Kaffebrenneriet for the coffee but it doesn’t have that comfortable lounging space. On the other hand, the Swedish chain Espresso House, which has proliferated here in Oslo, is the new “bring your laptop and lounge” cafe, although their food items, imo, are sketchy. But, it’s true, outside the Espresso Houses, most cafes here are tiny and not really set up as hangout zones.
I'm reminded here of McDonald's and Pizza Hut in Moscow in the Soviet Union, when I lived there in 1991. I can scoff all I want at chains and the need to patronize local businesses (and as someone else said below, I really can't stand Starbucks actual coffee though I like spending time there in unfamiliar places; it's been a refuge for me many times when there aren't alternatives), but these places mean something in non-American cultures. When McDonald's in Moscow eventually shut down after Putin invaded Ukraine it was the bookending of something huge. Thanks for this one!
Yeah, when the US franchises ended Russia that definitely heralded an end. Aren't they now called things like Starbacks and still using the same logo? I can't say I use them as refuges but even for someone like me who really enjoys variety and feeling like a fish out of water, sometimes Starbucks' familiarity is very welcome.
And thanks for reading!