1. I'm so sorry you had that experience. It must have been really scary (and painful). I'm glad you're OK and that you had such supportive medical treatment.
2. "By having my accident in Norway, I’d already had my share of good luck." That's exactly how Dave and I felt about his emergency colon cancer surgery here in 2021. We pay about $200/month into the Czech healthcare system... and his cancer treatment cost ZERO dollars. He had emergency services at the ER, including 2 CT scans and multiple x-rays, 6-hour surgery, a 10-day hospital stay, and Rx drugs afterward, plus a follow-up appointment with the surgeon. ZERO dollars. And now he sees an oncologist every six months, has a CT scan annually, and colonoscopies every 6 months... for zero dollars. The doctors are excellent and attentive — it's just amazing to me the US can't figure out how to do that. Amazing and heartbreaking.
Thanks, Melissa. As for Dave, wow, thank god you guys have that kind of care in the Czech Republic. I can't even begin to imagine what that would've cost in the US. Frankly, the American healthcare system scares the crap out of me.
We just left Denmark as we are on European road trip. Every Dane we met expressed such pride in their small country. Nearly all mentioned the peace of mind they are afforded by state healthcare, education, etc. Yes Americans would be shocked by the tax rates…but what is more shocking is the 8% effective rate American millionaires pay for the privileges and advantages offered to them in the US.
Couldn't agree with more about what's the most shocking. We're supposedly the richest country in the world. We could do better if we wanted. We just don't want to and the result is completely avoidable human misery.
A Country should be judged on how their government and society treat the most vulnerable in our society or in a vulnerable state. Here in Ireland you can be for Private , I do and I’m seen quicker , however and this is the most fundamental point. Any patient who is deemed worse than you on the day, be they indigent or wealthy they are treated the same and prioritized. We here in Ireland of course love to give out about life here but in fact I am firmly proud about the majority by a lot of people are firmly of the belief that this is the way we are.
Great story. I totally agree with your thesis. England is very good as well, I learned when I had a serious kidney stone attack there several decades ago.
I found the perspective here very interesting. Norway is obviously doing something right because you've got a set up that is free but also not falling apart. In Ontario, Canada, where I live, we have not for profit healthcare, but it's woefully underfunded.
I actually believe that the current government is intentionally letting it burn down so they can bring in private care and make money for their friends (our current premier is a real piece of work). I went to the ER a few months ago with suspected appendicitis, and it took about 20 hours from the time I got there to the time I left (this included seeing the doctor and getting a CT scan). Almost all of that wait was on uncomfortable chairs in a hallway - inlcuding the time I waited after being "admitted" and waiting for CT - which happened at maybe 3 am. The ER was packed, people were exhausted and miserable, etc etc. And I'm one of the lucky ones: I have a primary care doctor, specialists, etc. But in an emergency, I had to go through the ER and it was awful.
Earlier in the year, we thought our older son had broken his ankle (it was a sprain, thank God) and it took another visit to the ER and X-Rays to confirm. The whole thing took 6 hours, which is considered downright fast. I'm pretty sure they "rushed" us because I had a kid with me.
Ooof, I had no idea it was like that there. And I wouldn't be shocked at all if they are trying to make people hate a public system so it can be made private. Hopefully, voters will have something to say about that. I'm glad you're okay though!
I've always thought that one interesting way to frame universal medical insurance would be to make it about entrepreneurship - how many would be entrepreneurs or small business owners are held back by the thought of paying for health insurance or some catastrophic medical expenses for them or their family? 22k is such an extreme burden, among all the other costs and risks of running a business. not everyone has the tolerance or ability to take that risk, but still wants to go out and make something. Opening that up, I would imagine, could be such a huge boon for people actually trying to pursue their passions while potentially creating jobs along the way.
That's both a great way of framing it, and it seems absolutely true. I think it's also true about art -- how many writers, actors, painters, singers, can't pursue their passions for fear of not having health insurance.
Dr. McDreamy gave me a giggle, as I would have given him the same name. Glad to hear you are okay and had such a great eye opening experience. I look for the lessons, something I was supposed to learn from every experience. You took away much more than immense kindness.
I was trying to think what that would cost here, then started comparing what I pay for insurance here in California. Makes me want to move to Norway now. I have family in Varberg, Sweden, and they are so welcoming.
So very true. I have "really good insurance" here in California, but even with that, my co-pay on an eye surgery last month (blepharoplasty) was $1400. And of course the trickle down effect is still going on.. $75 for this, $50 for that, after insurance only paid certain amounts or rejected something entirely. On top of what I have paid monthly for the insurance for the last 30 years, it is ridiculous that they reject anything at all.
So happy this turned out well for you, Michael. I remember the shock I felt when I received a note from Brent saying you were injured.
Here in British Columbia, people complain about healthcare availability, wait times etc.
Fortunately, I don’t share the need to complain. After spending four healthy decades abroad, we moved here in 2018. In 2019, I needed a kidney stone removed. It cost about $27 Canadian for painkillers I never needed to use.
This year, my prostate started causing problems. I needed multiple blood and urine tests, an ultrasound, cystoscopy, a catheter, and finally an operation to remove a “bulb” that was blocking my flow.
People told me I’d be waiting months and months before the non-urgent procedure could be done. It was less than six weeks. Total cost = $0, including a one night stay in hospital.
There are voices shouting that our system is broken and that we need more privatization. The system isn’t perfect and can certainly been improved, but, like Norway and other European countries I’ve lived in, we’re fortunate to have the system that we have, especially considering the post-pandemic shortages of qualified healthcare workers.
Glad to hear the system in BC is functioning well. Another Canadian friend in Ottawa says she fears some politicians are trying to break the system so that people will want it be privatized. Here's hoping that never happens.
It's always interesting to note the differences between countries when it comes to everyday matters.
Sometimes, Governments need to take note of how other countries do things and and make some changes that benefit their own residents rather than the pockets of bureaucrats.
I wish the Republicans in our country would listen because they are the main roadblocks to the US changing. Alas, I'm not sure we ever will at this point.
Wow. Glad you are OK. It is depressing, to think that much of America is so vehemently against providing medical care to people, on the crazy basis that helping another person (oftentimes of lesser income) is bad. People are willing to spend on exorbitant monthly premiums via paycheck deductions for health insurance, but unwilling to pay the same, or less, for universal care.
We were in India recently, and while we paid out of pocket for some unexpected emergencies, including a 3-day hospital stay, the total of that, including a battery of tests, MRIs, EEGs (plus ambulance transport to and from the EEG facility), several visits from specialists and more, came to well under $2000.
So glad this turned out the way it did! Our medical experiences outside the US for routine healthcare have been exemplary. Thank goodness we have not had an emergency medical situation, but your story comforts me that we will be fine if we do.
Michael—must be kismet or irony or something, because I just finished and posted an article about American Healthcare, and how I got charged US$275 for a colonoscopy, a procedure my GI Doctor insisted I needed to get! (https://drdarkeny.substack.com/p/obamacare-fourteen-years-later )
In MY case, I didn't even get upstairs for my procedure (which I'd prepped for already) before coughing up the dough—because America. that's why! Gods forbid Somebody Less Worthy should get a benefit, any benefit—an attitude which I was sure was going to change during COVID-19 lockdown, but which if anything got held onto even more.
Sorry to hear about your nasty spill and glad everything is okay, splitting your head open aside.
So glad you are okay! I used to be a lifeguard, and it’s either really boring or really scary!
Oh, and the looking behind the ears? The doc was likely checking for what’s called Battle’s sign, which is indicative of a skull fracture - glad you didn’t have it! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle%27s_sign
1. I'm so sorry you had that experience. It must have been really scary (and painful). I'm glad you're OK and that you had such supportive medical treatment.
2. "By having my accident in Norway, I’d already had my share of good luck." That's exactly how Dave and I felt about his emergency colon cancer surgery here in 2021. We pay about $200/month into the Czech healthcare system... and his cancer treatment cost ZERO dollars. He had emergency services at the ER, including 2 CT scans and multiple x-rays, 6-hour surgery, a 10-day hospital stay, and Rx drugs afterward, plus a follow-up appointment with the surgeon. ZERO dollars. And now he sees an oncologist every six months, has a CT scan annually, and colonoscopies every 6 months... for zero dollars. The doctors are excellent and attentive — it's just amazing to me the US can't figure out how to do that. Amazing and heartbreaking.
Thanks, Melissa. As for Dave, wow, thank god you guys have that kind of care in the Czech Republic. I can't even begin to imagine what that would've cost in the US. Frankly, the American healthcare system scares the crap out of me.
Goddamned socialists and their radical agenda to take care of their citizens. Sickening.
Also, glad you're okay!
Yeah, they're the worst! And thanks.
We just left Denmark as we are on European road trip. Every Dane we met expressed such pride in their small country. Nearly all mentioned the peace of mind they are afforded by state healthcare, education, etc. Yes Americans would be shocked by the tax rates…but what is more shocking is the 8% effective rate American millionaires pay for the privileges and advantages offered to them in the US.
Couldn't agree with more about what's the most shocking. We're supposedly the richest country in the world. We could do better if we wanted. We just don't want to and the result is completely avoidable human misery.
A Country should be judged on how their government and society treat the most vulnerable in our society or in a vulnerable state. Here in Ireland you can be for Private , I do and I’m seen quicker , however and this is the most fundamental point. Any patient who is deemed worse than you on the day, be they indigent or wealthy they are treated the same and prioritized. We here in Ireland of course love to give out about life here but in fact I am firmly proud about the majority by a lot of people are firmly of the belief that this is the way we are.
Good to know bc I think we'll be in Ireland next February!
Great story. I totally agree with your thesis. England is very good as well, I learned when I had a serious kidney stone attack there several decades ago.
Thanks! And glad to hear that.
I found the perspective here very interesting. Norway is obviously doing something right because you've got a set up that is free but also not falling apart. In Ontario, Canada, where I live, we have not for profit healthcare, but it's woefully underfunded.
I actually believe that the current government is intentionally letting it burn down so they can bring in private care and make money for their friends (our current premier is a real piece of work). I went to the ER a few months ago with suspected appendicitis, and it took about 20 hours from the time I got there to the time I left (this included seeing the doctor and getting a CT scan). Almost all of that wait was on uncomfortable chairs in a hallway - inlcuding the time I waited after being "admitted" and waiting for CT - which happened at maybe 3 am. The ER was packed, people were exhausted and miserable, etc etc. And I'm one of the lucky ones: I have a primary care doctor, specialists, etc. But in an emergency, I had to go through the ER and it was awful.
Earlier in the year, we thought our older son had broken his ankle (it was a sprain, thank God) and it took another visit to the ER and X-Rays to confirm. The whole thing took 6 hours, which is considered downright fast. I'm pretty sure they "rushed" us because I had a kid with me.
Ooof, I had no idea it was like that there. And I wouldn't be shocked at all if they are trying to make people hate a public system so it can be made private. Hopefully, voters will have something to say about that. I'm glad you're okay though!
I've always thought that one interesting way to frame universal medical insurance would be to make it about entrepreneurship - how many would be entrepreneurs or small business owners are held back by the thought of paying for health insurance or some catastrophic medical expenses for them or their family? 22k is such an extreme burden, among all the other costs and risks of running a business. not everyone has the tolerance or ability to take that risk, but still wants to go out and make something. Opening that up, I would imagine, could be such a huge boon for people actually trying to pursue their passions while potentially creating jobs along the way.
Anyway, glad you're okay!
That's both a great way of framing it, and it seems absolutely true. I think it's also true about art -- how many writers, actors, painters, singers, can't pursue their passions for fear of not having health insurance.
oh absolutely for artists as well!
Dr. McDreamy gave me a giggle, as I would have given him the same name. Glad to hear you are okay and had such a great eye opening experience. I look for the lessons, something I was supposed to learn from every experience. You took away much more than immense kindness.
I was trying to think what that would cost here, then started comparing what I pay for insurance here in California. Makes me want to move to Norway now. I have family in Varberg, Sweden, and they are so welcoming.
Glad I made you laugh. We figure the cost in the U.S. probably would've been somewhere $5000 and $10000 grand. Shocking difference.
So very true. I have "really good insurance" here in California, but even with that, my co-pay on an eye surgery last month (blepharoplasty) was $1400. And of course the trickle down effect is still going on.. $75 for this, $50 for that, after insurance only paid certain amounts or rejected something entirely. On top of what I have paid monthly for the insurance for the last 30 years, it is ridiculous that they reject anything at all.
I'm so glad you're ok! 🙏
Thank you!
So happy this turned out well for you, Michael. I remember the shock I felt when I received a note from Brent saying you were injured.
Here in British Columbia, people complain about healthcare availability, wait times etc.
Fortunately, I don’t share the need to complain. After spending four healthy decades abroad, we moved here in 2018. In 2019, I needed a kidney stone removed. It cost about $27 Canadian for painkillers I never needed to use.
This year, my prostate started causing problems. I needed multiple blood and urine tests, an ultrasound, cystoscopy, a catheter, and finally an operation to remove a “bulb” that was blocking my flow.
People told me I’d be waiting months and months before the non-urgent procedure could be done. It was less than six weeks. Total cost = $0, including a one night stay in hospital.
There are voices shouting that our system is broken and that we need more privatization. The system isn’t perfect and can certainly been improved, but, like Norway and other European countries I’ve lived in, we’re fortunate to have the system that we have, especially considering the post-pandemic shortages of qualified healthcare workers.
Glad to hear the system in BC is functioning well. Another Canadian friend in Ottawa says she fears some politicians are trying to break the system so that people will want it be privatized. Here's hoping that never happens.
Wow, so glad you are OK.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
It's always interesting to note the differences between countries when it comes to everyday matters.
Sometimes, Governments need to take note of how other countries do things and and make some changes that benefit their own residents rather than the pockets of bureaucrats.
I wish the Republicans in our country would listen because they are the main roadblocks to the US changing. Alas, I'm not sure we ever will at this point.
Perhaps, a change is coming...
Wow. Glad you are OK. It is depressing, to think that much of America is so vehemently against providing medical care to people, on the crazy basis that helping another person (oftentimes of lesser income) is bad. People are willing to spend on exorbitant monthly premiums via paycheck deductions for health insurance, but unwilling to pay the same, or less, for universal care.
We were in India recently, and while we paid out of pocket for some unexpected emergencies, including a 3-day hospital stay, the total of that, including a battery of tests, MRIs, EEGs (plus ambulance transport to and from the EEG facility), several visits from specialists and more, came to well under $2000.
It is amazing and depressing. I want to think things will change, but I just don't see how.
So glad this turned out the way it did! Our medical experiences outside the US for routine healthcare have been exemplary. Thank goodness we have not had an emergency medical situation, but your story comforts me that we will be fine if we do.
It's amazing how better it is, isn't it?
Michael—must be kismet or irony or something, because I just finished and posted an article about American Healthcare, and how I got charged US$275 for a colonoscopy, a procedure my GI Doctor insisted I needed to get! (https://drdarkeny.substack.com/p/obamacare-fourteen-years-later )
In MY case, I didn't even get upstairs for my procedure (which I'd prepped for already) before coughing up the dough—because America. that's why! Gods forbid Somebody Less Worthy should get a benefit, any benefit—an attitude which I was sure was going to change during COVID-19 lockdown, but which if anything got held onto even more.
Sorry to hear about your nasty spill and glad everything is okay, splitting your head open aside.
Of course, you'd have to pay first in the US! But frankly, I'm shocked it didn't cost you more!
Well, I did have both Medicare AND Medicare Advantage through Humana, so I guess I was...lucky?
So glad you are okay! I used to be a lifeguard, and it’s either really boring or really scary!
Oh, and the looking behind the ears? The doc was likely checking for what’s called Battle’s sign, which is indicative of a skull fracture - glad you didn’t have it! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle%27s_sign
Thanks, Madeline! I'm not sure I want to click on that link!
Fair! It's just a medical drawing, not a real pic luckily!
Glad you were not seriously injured. The wound looks scary.
Thanks! And me too!