Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
We started running the numbers when Trump got elected and saw we could probably retire early if we moved to spain. In the states we are paid well and have an enviable lifesryle in terms of property and things but we work so many hes we dont get to enjoy it and since covid our nyc lofestyle is fractured. We just did an exploratory trip to Spain and are realizing we dont even have to retire. We can just move now and work half time. I will be doing a remote month in Madrid in the Spring to put my foot in the water. Your stories are very inspiring.
Jul 13, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Insightful article, many thanks!
With the USA in our rearview mirror, kinda seems to us that it’s a good place to be from these days. The creeping markers of a failed state are really taking a shine off its promise, prosperity & progress. Whatever the challenges of changing continents, it’s riskier not to change out of troubled situations. We’re still rooting for it & helping in different ways, but we all get just one pass through the universe🌍
Jul 13, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
With the US Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade, further expanding gun ownership in an already volatile country, and their crosshairs focused on the LGBTQIA+ community next, our plan is to leave the US when we retire in a few years and return to our home in the California desert only when we have to.
Nov 16, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
I am from Canada and shake my head when I look at what is happening with our southern neighbours. I have heard so many Canadians say they no longer feel “ safe” travelling in the states.. given the political climate etc. if our weather wasn’t so bad for 5 months of the year , we would never consider leaving !
Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Thank you for another meaningful and thoughtful-provoking article!
Actually, I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago, during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings (and see how that turned out!). For the past 30+ years I’ve been living and working in Kyoto, Japan. There are many similarities with Europe in regard to health care and deep ties to the soil, and many profound differences (for one, Japanese working hours make American work culture look like a picnic) but in all, life has been much more interesting and culturally satisfying than if I had stayed in the US, and I have never regretted my decision.
Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
Dear Brent:
Thanks for the great article. Having just viewed the latest of the January 6 Committee hearings, and growing numb over the ever increasing number of mass shootings with fatalities in this country, and the specter of Trump running again for president, I'm definitely looking for another country to spend my life in for the rest of it. I was watching some "vintage" concert scenes on YouTube (i.e. Queen at Live Aid, Tom Jones in the UK, and Simon and Garfunkel in Central Park), and all I could think of was how unsafe it would be to attend a large crowd venue now in this country. I don't think the US will ever be able to shake off the dysfunction of the current episodes and it will only continue to get worse until it devolves into a highly racist autocratic country. I appreciate the various pros and cons you've listed in the article. In my mind, the pros definitely outweigh the cons.
Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
That is super interesting about the digital nomad visas. I'd never heard of those. That said, as you highlight, I feel like many European countries are making it easier for Americans to flee their shining shores. My wife's family all come from Italy, and after speaking with an attorney, it is quite easy (a couple thousand dollars and some paperwork) for her and my two daughters to get citizenship there. It's a little bit harder for me, since the requirement for spouses is learning B-level Italian. Time to hire a tutor!
Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
This post expresses what my husband and I have been talking about as we plan our move in the next year or so. Although there will definitely be challenges with new ways of doing things, we are both looking forward to a different lifestyle and figuring things out together.
Great article. I took a break to read it as my wife and I pack up our things, make dump runs and get ready to just shirk it all to go on the road to Europe and beyond in less than 60 days. All of what you said resonated and more. We have a 22 and a 20 year old and we tell them (implore with them actually) to aggressively look to find careers outside of the U.S. upon their college graduations. We cannot imagine either trying to raise families in the current climate of the U.S.
Great read (and listen!). I think we are keeping an eye on the "rise of DeSantis" here in Florida. We have maybe a 3-5 year timeline before we transition to a nomadic lifestyle, but that may accelerate.
Jul 12, 2022Liked by Brent Hartinger, Michael Jensen
I agree with your reasoning but I haven't given up hope yet. I do think that the 2024 election will be critical in our decision. Either America will be reborn or it will spiral down.
I am a diabetic and need access to insulin which complicates matters for me. The other issue is how to move our money to Europe which I know rich people can do (somehow). We both are retired and getting social security and our pensions are also factors.
And there is some inkling that some countries in the Schengen will be modifying their 90 day rules in 2023. The proposal sounded a bit complicated, but could extend our 90 into 180 in some cases. have you seen any of this ?
Eek, to move or not to move. I grapple with this question everyday. I'm about as "French" as an American can get (attended part of high school and college in France, very close with my adoptive French host family, lots of friends and international work connections, did live abroad for a number of years and moved BACK to the States in 2017 because... Washington DC is truly home. I'm my mother's only child, and my parents are getting older quick. I can't see them moving at this point. I can't see leaving them behind. I also have an amazing group of friends and people I love dearly at home -- they're also a big part of the reason I moved back, despite Trump, despite it all. To be there for weddings, birthdays, kids.
And yet and yet.
I was having a drink with my German half-brother last weekend in his local Biergarten (yet another reason on the 'pro-Europe' side, I have a whole legitimate family here) last weekend, and he was asking not if, but when, I would come to my senses. We both agree that America is in rapid decline, as much as we hope for things to turn around. He pointed out my cognitive dissonance, at accepting that fact, and yet not making a proactive move... despite having the connections and resources to do so.
And yet.
Family and friends are why I stay. I don't know if that's the right choice and/or at what point I'll come to regret that choice. But I finally understand why people struggle to leave -- to act in situations that seem so clear-cut from the outside. I'm still trying to forge my future as I always imagined it, despite all the evidence telling me it's time for Plan B.
Germany also fast-tracks citizenship for descendants of those who had theirs taken away in the Nazi era. My father, a Jewish refugee, lost his German citizenship, but when he left Germany he brought ALL his identity documents, back to his birth certificate. I'm have some health issues that will keep me from moving--but my daughter also has her German passport through me and any of her (eventual) children will be able to get theirs with just her passport and their birth certificate. I just like knowing it's there...if he who shall not be named is elected again, it's off to Spain or France for me, health issues or not!
When I am cheating at Worldle it is in Asia, and it's not in the list of 44 countries you get when you Google "European Countries List". And it makes not a whit of difference to this discussion, except that Americans are woefully uninformed about geography, world history, and anything further away than the nearest Costco. You are confusing them, bless their hearts.
We started running the numbers when Trump got elected and saw we could probably retire early if we moved to spain. In the states we are paid well and have an enviable lifesryle in terms of property and things but we work so many hes we dont get to enjoy it and since covid our nyc lofestyle is fractured. We just did an exploratory trip to Spain and are realizing we dont even have to retire. We can just move now and work half time. I will be doing a remote month in Madrid in the Spring to put my foot in the water. Your stories are very inspiring.
Insightful article, many thanks!
With the USA in our rearview mirror, kinda seems to us that it’s a good place to be from these days. The creeping markers of a failed state are really taking a shine off its promise, prosperity & progress. Whatever the challenges of changing continents, it’s riskier not to change out of troubled situations. We’re still rooting for it & helping in different ways, but we all get just one pass through the universe🌍
With the US Supreme Court overturning Roe vs. Wade, further expanding gun ownership in an already volatile country, and their crosshairs focused on the LGBTQIA+ community next, our plan is to leave the US when we retire in a few years and return to our home in the California desert only when we have to.
I am from Canada and shake my head when I look at what is happening with our southern neighbours. I have heard so many Canadians say they no longer feel “ safe” travelling in the states.. given the political climate etc. if our weather wasn’t so bad for 5 months of the year , we would never consider leaving !
Thank you for another meaningful and thoughtful-provoking article!
Actually, I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago, during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings (and see how that turned out!). For the past 30+ years I’ve been living and working in Kyoto, Japan. There are many similarities with Europe in regard to health care and deep ties to the soil, and many profound differences (for one, Japanese working hours make American work culture look like a picnic) but in all, life has been much more interesting and culturally satisfying than if I had stayed in the US, and I have never regretted my decision.
Dear Brent:
Thanks for the great article. Having just viewed the latest of the January 6 Committee hearings, and growing numb over the ever increasing number of mass shootings with fatalities in this country, and the specter of Trump running again for president, I'm definitely looking for another country to spend my life in for the rest of it. I was watching some "vintage" concert scenes on YouTube (i.e. Queen at Live Aid, Tom Jones in the UK, and Simon and Garfunkel in Central Park), and all I could think of was how unsafe it would be to attend a large crowd venue now in this country. I don't think the US will ever be able to shake off the dysfunction of the current episodes and it will only continue to get worse until it devolves into a highly racist autocratic country. I appreciate the various pros and cons you've listed in the article. In my mind, the pros definitely outweigh the cons.
That is super interesting about the digital nomad visas. I'd never heard of those. That said, as you highlight, I feel like many European countries are making it easier for Americans to flee their shining shores. My wife's family all come from Italy, and after speaking with an attorney, it is quite easy (a couple thousand dollars and some paperwork) for her and my two daughters to get citizenship there. It's a little bit harder for me, since the requirement for spouses is learning B-level Italian. Time to hire a tutor!
This post expresses what my husband and I have been talking about as we plan our move in the next year or so. Although there will definitely be challenges with new ways of doing things, we are both looking forward to a different lifestyle and figuring things out together.
Great article. I took a break to read it as my wife and I pack up our things, make dump runs and get ready to just shirk it all to go on the road to Europe and beyond in less than 60 days. All of what you said resonated and more. We have a 22 and a 20 year old and we tell them (implore with them actually) to aggressively look to find careers outside of the U.S. upon their college graduations. We cannot imagine either trying to raise families in the current climate of the U.S.
Great read (and listen!). I think we are keeping an eye on the "rise of DeSantis" here in Florida. We have maybe a 3-5 year timeline before we transition to a nomadic lifestyle, but that may accelerate.
I agree with your reasoning but I haven't given up hope yet. I do think that the 2024 election will be critical in our decision. Either America will be reborn or it will spiral down.
I am a diabetic and need access to insulin which complicates matters for me. The other issue is how to move our money to Europe which I know rich people can do (somehow). We both are retired and getting social security and our pensions are also factors.
And there is some inkling that some countries in the Schengen will be modifying their 90 day rules in 2023. The proposal sounded a bit complicated, but could extend our 90 into 180 in some cases. have you seen any of this ?
Eek, to move or not to move. I grapple with this question everyday. I'm about as "French" as an American can get (attended part of high school and college in France, very close with my adoptive French host family, lots of friends and international work connections, did live abroad for a number of years and moved BACK to the States in 2017 because... Washington DC is truly home. I'm my mother's only child, and my parents are getting older quick. I can't see them moving at this point. I can't see leaving them behind. I also have an amazing group of friends and people I love dearly at home -- they're also a big part of the reason I moved back, despite Trump, despite it all. To be there for weddings, birthdays, kids.
And yet and yet.
I was having a drink with my German half-brother last weekend in his local Biergarten (yet another reason on the 'pro-Europe' side, I have a whole legitimate family here) last weekend, and he was asking not if, but when, I would come to my senses. We both agree that America is in rapid decline, as much as we hope for things to turn around. He pointed out my cognitive dissonance, at accepting that fact, and yet not making a proactive move... despite having the connections and resources to do so.
And yet.
Family and friends are why I stay. I don't know if that's the right choice and/or at what point I'll come to regret that choice. But I finally understand why people struggle to leave -- to act in situations that seem so clear-cut from the outside. I'm still trying to forge my future as I always imagined it, despite all the evidence telling me it's time for Plan B.
Germany also fast-tracks citizenship for descendants of those who had theirs taken away in the Nazi era. My father, a Jewish refugee, lost his German citizenship, but when he left Germany he brought ALL his identity documents, back to his birth certificate. I'm have some health issues that will keep me from moving--but my daughter also has her German passport through me and any of her (eventual) children will be able to get theirs with just her passport and their birth certificate. I just like knowing it's there...if he who shall not be named is elected again, it's off to Spain or France for me, health issues or not!
When I am cheating at Worldle it is in Asia, and it's not in the list of 44 countries you get when you Google "European Countries List". And it makes not a whit of difference to this discussion, except that Americans are woefully uninformed about geography, world history, and anything further away than the nearest Costco. You are confusing them, bless their hearts.
Not to be picky, but Georgia is not considered to be a European country.