My heart went out to you all. Context helps: The postwar consumer economy, the skills of Madison Avenue, primed by developing propaganda techniques during two world wars, and increasingly aimed at women, have much more to do with this than your mum trying to make up for her childhood. She was not alone. Neither were you. ❤️
Good point. Thanks for bringing it up. My mother fell prey, in the late 60s/early 70s, to MasterCharge, as it was called then, and Visa, sending out unsolicited credit cards with encouragement to use them freely, thus helping the economy. All it did was ruin her and my father's credit.
The story of your parents sounds eerily familiar. Starting a family at the ripe old age of 18, with 3 kiddies by 24, I lived your parent's (and mine) story, til I got that one windfall, but used that to change my financial trajectory, and from the age of 30 never got in debt again, and with Fred for some 35 years, have never owed anything to anybody other than 30 day bills, which as you say are paid at the end of the month. The feeling of being debt free is almost euphoric.
Excellent article. I, like you , grew up in similar circumstances. My mother had a magic dresser drawer where she put bills and notices and they "disappeared" What bills, what past due notices? And, like you, I did exactly the opposite of my parents and I am the only one of 7 children who never declared bankruptcy. I'm not wealthy by any definition, but at every moment I know exactly the specifics of my financial situation. My husband and I are comfortable and happy and part of that I attribute to knowing about money.
Sometimes the best role models are the worst ones. I relate to this experience all too well, and the way I live today is undoubtedly informed by how my family lived when I was young.
As a now parent, ironically I worry my own kids will be feckless and reckless because we've been fortunate enough to provide them with stability, financial and otherwise. Time will tell.
I've known kids with well off parents who had no motivation, but I also know plenty of parents who did it right. But, well, I read your Substack, sooooo......🤣🤣🤣
This article resonates with me….my family dynamic was different in that my father liked saving money but my mother not so much! She liked to gamble! I too bought things I didn’t need but one of my therapists explained what I was doing and why. For me knowing why we do something makes it easier to stop doing it….it took a long time to get where I don’t worry about “how will I have the money to pay this”. My husband handled the bills which was my first mistake! I had no idea how much the electric bill was…things like that are colossal bad things to do….I paid for groceries and gas for the car while he paid for everything else. Eventually we both retired and things went on as before. Then he got sick and passed three years ago. We each had our own checking account but everything and I mean everything we owned had both our names on it. I made sure of that as soon as we got married. I was not going to eat Alpo if he died! Now, because he’s gone I’m in charge of everything! Not sure I like it but I’m doing it. I’m paddling my own canoe and I kind of like it….i love your articles and I love hearing your stories about your nomad life….❤️
Yes, parents can do that, teaching their kids by giving the bad example. I loved her very much, but not wanting to be like my mother in certain ways, was hugely motivating.
I paid to subscribe to your Substack on September 2, but it doesn’t show me as a paid member. I get a lot out of your posts. I agree with your money ethics completely.
Thanks for sharing such a personal story. Its one we all can relate to. I like your non materialistic travelling lifestyle, which is so much more interesting than stuff! Keep up the good work.
This could be my story, except that not only did I do just the opposite financially and am secure now, but also married once (mom had six, granny had two) for 49 years. Since my fam consisted of mom and granny only, I had no one to set an example, I had to figure it out myself, so my first job was the U.S. Army Women’s Army Corps and the rest of my working life was shaped by that. I also got a college degree and a husband - thank you Army!
I've heard repeatedly how much the Army/Navy has helped people get their lives on track. I didn't really get into my parents dysfunctional relationship, but watching their marriage also taught me what I wanted mine to look like...
Great article Michael! So similar to my growing up. Mom loved her charge cards. I don’t know how she got my father to co-sign all of them. This was when women had to have a man co-sign for them. Every new school season we went to the best shopping center and got all new clothes from the best stores (and mom got a few things too!). So every month we kids would hear from Mom: “Go outside now, your father’s doing the bills,” Then the yelling began. Sorry so long of a comment but brought back so many memories. I’m good with money now (wasn’t always) but sure am now. Thanks Michael!
Reading this hurt my heart. And, who knows what their parents taught THEM? Depression-era children perhaps? I guess I feel lucky that I learned nothing either way about money from my parents. My father got a monthly paycheck (military) and my mother made it last. When my mother divorced my father, she wanted and took no money from him and established her own career. it was tragically cut short by a brain-damaging aneurysm and my brothers and I had to work together to manage her healthcare and finances. We took care of her for in various ways—in a deliberately equitable way— for 25 years until her death at the age of 76. It was hard work but it created a bond between the three of us that never wavered. We HAD to manage our own finances because we also needed to take care of her.
I worked for Merrill Lynch my first year out of college which gave me an education that lasted a lifetime. I was too free with credit cards and pulled myself together to maximize my 401k when I was 48. Better late than never! And I had an alcoholic for a husband that I carried financially for WAY too long.
As you know, I was open-kimono about our finances and wrote a blog about how we could afford to be nomadic now. After 4 years, our plan is still working. But, no, I never learned anything about money from my folks. Well, my dad was too cheap to stay in hotels or eat out in restaurants and, I must admit, it is still a luxurious treat for me to do so! (Oh, spelling police: rein in, not reign!).
It fascinates me that handling money is such a huge part of life, and yet we don't offer any education in it as part of basic high-schooling. Even in college or adult education, you have to seek it out. And as you point out, managing money gets wrapped up in so many other things--emotions, beliefs, values.
A friend once told me that when he gets, say, a $5000 line of credit, in his mind it's like getting $5000 that he now can spend. Whereas for me, a line of credit is just an invitation to debt. He was having to re-train his mind to not think of credit limits as money that he already had.
One line especially stuck out at me: "But she said she believed in the company and thought that would be disloyal." I am always begging people to understand that companies (and other organizations) are not our buddies, and "loyalty" shouldn't enter into it. They are not loyal to us; their main goal is to make money from us. It crops up most often when I see people working overtime for free out of a similar feeling. I always thought, "If I dropped dead tonight, my employer would open for business tomorrow without missing a beat. So they can certainly go on without my working extra for free." I was conscientious about putting in a good day's work for my pay ... but at the end of the day, my time became my own.
You are so right about teaching financial literacy! It's especially necessar TVy in America where corporations have soooo much power to manipulate and fool consumers.
My parents were the same way about lines of credit, whereas I refused to go anywhere near them!
And I tell people to run from any company that says they are "family." Total BS.
My heart went out to you all. Context helps: The postwar consumer economy, the skills of Madison Avenue, primed by developing propaganda techniques during two world wars, and increasingly aimed at women, have much more to do with this than your mum trying to make up for her childhood. She was not alone. Neither were you. ❤️
Good point. Thanks for bringing it up. My mother fell prey, in the late 60s/early 70s, to MasterCharge, as it was called then, and Visa, sending out unsolicited credit cards with encouragement to use them freely, thus helping the economy. All it did was ruin her and my father's credit.
My mom was bipolar. When she was manic she bought lots of things. I wonder…
Sorry to hear that...
The story of your parents sounds eerily familiar. Starting a family at the ripe old age of 18, with 3 kiddies by 24, I lived your parent's (and mine) story, til I got that one windfall, but used that to change my financial trajectory, and from the age of 30 never got in debt again, and with Fred for some 35 years, have never owed anything to anybody other than 30 day bills, which as you say are paid at the end of the month. The feeling of being debt free is almost euphoric.
Euphoric is right! I also just love the sense of security which I never ever had as a kid.
Excellent article. I, like you , grew up in similar circumstances. My mother had a magic dresser drawer where she put bills and notices and they "disappeared" What bills, what past due notices? And, like you, I did exactly the opposite of my parents and I am the only one of 7 children who never declared bankruptcy. I'm not wealthy by any definition, but at every moment I know exactly the specifics of my financial situation. My husband and I are comfortable and happy and part of that I attribute to knowing about money.
Sounds like your parents were even less responsible then mine. Glad you again find your way to now stability.
Sometimes the best role models are the worst ones. I relate to this experience all too well, and the way I live today is undoubtedly informed by how my family lived when I was young.
As a now parent, ironically I worry my own kids will be feckless and reckless because we've been fortunate enough to provide them with stability, financial and otherwise. Time will tell.
I've known kids with well off parents who had no motivation, but I also know plenty of parents who did it right. But, well, I read your Substack, sooooo......🤣🤣🤣
Zing!
The fact that you're even thinking about this makes it pretty unlikely they'll end up feckless.
This article resonates with me….my family dynamic was different in that my father liked saving money but my mother not so much! She liked to gamble! I too bought things I didn’t need but one of my therapists explained what I was doing and why. For me knowing why we do something makes it easier to stop doing it….it took a long time to get where I don’t worry about “how will I have the money to pay this”. My husband handled the bills which was my first mistake! I had no idea how much the electric bill was…things like that are colossal bad things to do….I paid for groceries and gas for the car while he paid for everything else. Eventually we both retired and things went on as before. Then he got sick and passed three years ago. We each had our own checking account but everything and I mean everything we owned had both our names on it. I made sure of that as soon as we got married. I was not going to eat Alpo if he died! Now, because he’s gone I’m in charge of everything! Not sure I like it but I’m doing it. I’m paddling my own canoe and I kind of like it….i love your articles and I love hearing your stories about your nomad life….❤️
I'm sorry about your loss, Amy. 🥺 Our finances are quite complicated and frankly I need to do a better job of understanding them.
These are some great tips. Your parents produced a wonderful son, that's one worthwhile investment they made. 🙏🏾
Thank you very much, Dale!
Yes, parents can do that, teaching their kids by giving the bad example. I loved her very much, but not wanting to be like my mother in certain ways, was hugely motivating.
Yeah, money was just one of the things I learned to do differently from my parents. But that's another story!
We have a lot more in common than I thought, not just the desire to see the world. Thank you for sharing! I wish you the best happiness!
Thank you, Bob!
I paid to subscribe to your Substack on September 2, but it doesn’t show me as a paid member. I get a lot out of your posts. I agree with your money ethics completely.
Keep on writing. Thank you
Jan
Would you private message me the email address you signed up with so I can try and figure out why you aren't getting all of our newsletters?
Oh my. You learned so much in such a tough way. But thank goodness you did learn.
Thanks for sharing such a personal story. Its one we all can relate to. I like your non materialistic travelling lifestyle, which is so much more interesting than stuff! Keep up the good work.
Thanks, Dana! And thanks for reading!
This could be my story, except that not only did I do just the opposite financially and am secure now, but also married once (mom had six, granny had two) for 49 years. Since my fam consisted of mom and granny only, I had no one to set an example, I had to figure it out myself, so my first job was the U.S. Army Women’s Army Corps and the rest of my working life was shaped by that. I also got a college degree and a husband - thank you Army!
I've heard repeatedly how much the Army/Navy has helped people get their lives on track. I didn't really get into my parents dysfunctional relationship, but watching their marriage also taught me what I wanted mine to look like...
Hopefully, that’s what my kids will do.
I am the fiscally irresponsible parent.
Great article Michael! So similar to my growing up. Mom loved her charge cards. I don’t know how she got my father to co-sign all of them. This was when women had to have a man co-sign for them. Every new school season we went to the best shopping center and got all new clothes from the best stores (and mom got a few things too!). So every month we kids would hear from Mom: “Go outside now, your father’s doing the bills,” Then the yelling began. Sorry so long of a comment but brought back so many memories. I’m good with money now (wasn’t always) but sure am now. Thanks Michael!
Thanks, Robert! And no need to apologize at all. When we write articles like this we always hope folks will chime in with their own stories.
Reading this hurt my heart. And, who knows what their parents taught THEM? Depression-era children perhaps? I guess I feel lucky that I learned nothing either way about money from my parents. My father got a monthly paycheck (military) and my mother made it last. When my mother divorced my father, she wanted and took no money from him and established her own career. it was tragically cut short by a brain-damaging aneurysm and my brothers and I had to work together to manage her healthcare and finances. We took care of her for in various ways—in a deliberately equitable way— for 25 years until her death at the age of 76. It was hard work but it created a bond between the three of us that never wavered. We HAD to manage our own finances because we also needed to take care of her.
I worked for Merrill Lynch my first year out of college which gave me an education that lasted a lifetime. I was too free with credit cards and pulled myself together to maximize my 401k when I was 48. Better late than never! And I had an alcoholic for a husband that I carried financially for WAY too long.
As you know, I was open-kimono about our finances and wrote a blog about how we could afford to be nomadic now. After 4 years, our plan is still working. But, no, I never learned anything about money from my folks. Well, my dad was too cheap to stay in hotels or eat out in restaurants and, I must admit, it is still a luxurious treat for me to do so! (Oh, spelling police: rein in, not reign!).
It's so great that your mom's illness brought all of you together. So often you hear stories about how all the responsibility falls to I've sibling.
And nomading is great for the budget!
It fascinates me that handling money is such a huge part of life, and yet we don't offer any education in it as part of basic high-schooling. Even in college or adult education, you have to seek it out. And as you point out, managing money gets wrapped up in so many other things--emotions, beliefs, values.
A friend once told me that when he gets, say, a $5000 line of credit, in his mind it's like getting $5000 that he now can spend. Whereas for me, a line of credit is just an invitation to debt. He was having to re-train his mind to not think of credit limits as money that he already had.
One line especially stuck out at me: "But she said she believed in the company and thought that would be disloyal." I am always begging people to understand that companies (and other organizations) are not our buddies, and "loyalty" shouldn't enter into it. They are not loyal to us; their main goal is to make money from us. It crops up most often when I see people working overtime for free out of a similar feeling. I always thought, "If I dropped dead tonight, my employer would open for business tomorrow without missing a beat. So they can certainly go on without my working extra for free." I was conscientious about putting in a good day's work for my pay ... but at the end of the day, my time became my own.
You are so right about teaching financial literacy! It's especially necessar TVy in America where corporations have soooo much power to manipulate and fool consumers.
My parents were the same way about lines of credit, whereas I refused to go anywhere near them!
And I tell people to run from any company that says they are "family." Total BS.